Way to go Danni and Darryl. You asked all the right questions and Darryl is so right about why people get angry. Only guilty people get angry.
Also they better watch their backs now. I am really curious about that phone number about Bill Bowen. You really need to send it to him, just in case he doesn't read this thread.
He has threatened legal action against them if they did anything to besmirch his name. This may be the concrete evidence he needs to nail them.
Apostates indeed. Whatever.
Yrs2long and California, been there done that, no matter how you handle it the elders don't take care of you. My heart goes out to others who suffered even worse than I did!!
I call this a major victory. And the best part of all is that all in the congregation were listening outside the door. How nicely and lovingly their wonderful elders acted. Hmphhhh.
TW
thinkers wife
JoinedPosts by thinkers wife
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221
The meeting did not go well.
by Danni init would have taken more much more time to tell it all.
he told us the meeting would began as soon as the other brothers arrived.
danni: i will give you two.
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thinkers wife
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thinkers wife
Doggone it AlanF that is what I was going to do!!!! The desert thing. Oh well great minds think alike.
Now as for dessert?! Cheesecake!
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Proof the WT is God's Org?
by mindfield ini recall a conversation i once had with my jw uncle about the many doctrinal flip-flops, the blood issue, and how some in the cong.
treated me like @w#$@ even though i was never baptized.. funny, the only thing he could defend himself with was "well, do you know of any other religion that insists on god's name?
" i didn't know of any, so i coudn't really say yes.
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thinkers wife
Mind,
I think their success is due to the great training they recieve in the speaking and teaching area.
For myself, it was a matter of pride to be able to reason from the Bible and know where the scriptures were without using anything printed. I was very offended when the Reasoning Book came out because I had worked so hard to develop lines of reasoning and scriptures to support the thoughts.
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Proof the WT is God's Org?
by mindfield ini recall a conversation i once had with my jw uncle about the many doctrinal flip-flops, the blood issue, and how some in the cong.
treated me like @w#$@ even though i was never baptized.. funny, the only thing he could defend himself with was "well, do you know of any other religion that insists on god's name?
" i didn't know of any, so i coudn't really say yes.
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thinkers wife
Mindfield,
I am assuming that you do believe the Bible is inspired by God? (personally I can't see it but to each his own) Going on that premise, I would have to say that none of the religions have the truth. Even if we were to accept the Bible on it's own merit, I believe that if there is a God such as it teaches, doctrine would not be important.
What would be important is for those who read it and believed it to show love and try to make a positive impact on any around them.
Obviously the Witnesses do not do that. And since they themselves personally use John 13:35 as one of the identifying marks of true Christianity that leaves them out by their own rule.
I have recently attended two different church services. A Presbytyrian funeral and a Episcopal baptism. I was appalled at the lack of substance. There was a lot of reading from a book. The people, some who were obviously of that respective religion were just doing it by rote and it was quite apparent to me that that was the case. It made me sad. Because although I believe religion serves a purpose (it seems to help some be better people) there just was nothing in it that spoke to me. It seemed very empty and non-appealing.
Personally, I believe spirituality is a very individual thing. We each have to make peace with ourselves and live our lives as well as we can. But keeping that bottom line in mind. Have love/compassion for others and a positive affect on those around us. We can be spiritual without attending any church or even reading the Bible. This of course, is just my opinion for what it is worth.
Peace to you Mindfield, may you find what you are questing for.
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fruit
by larc inwhat is your favorite fruit.
i like cherries myself, if you get my drift.. aint't life grand, and isnt't fluff wonnerful.
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thinkers wife
Larc,
You really are a fruitcake!! You really crack me up. And Java,
thanks for egging him on!
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My interview with Jehovah's Witnesses
by Danni ini know i said i wouldn't post here again because of the way i made everyone upset over alanf,but i thought you all might want to know what took place and i do need some advice.. .
yesterday i took a little time out to talk with jehovah's witnesses.
at first they were more than happy to answer my questions.
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thinkers wife
Danni,
There is a process that J.W.'s are taught to go through when it comes to "sin". Especially what they consider serious sin.
This process is something that each and every Witness is taught to follow and that they believe to be right and Bible based. When it comes the the molestation issue it isn't that they love their children any less than anyone else, it is just that they believe this is the Biblical course. Here it is.
Matthew 13:15 This is the first step. You talk to your Brother. Try to reason with him and get him to confess to the sin. James 5:16
Something you need to keep in mind, any sin must be witnessed by two or more people in order for any action to be taken by the congregation. Dueteronomy 19:15
Now, if there haven't been at least two witnesses to the incident and the person denies it, then it is the one persons word against the other, and no action is taken. If the person does confess, that brings us to Matthew 18:17 This is where the elders come into play. They meet with the person, with what is called a judicial committee. They speak with the person counseling them with the scriptures, whatever applies according to the sin committed. If the person displays what the elders consider a repentant attitude, they will not be disfellowshipped, but other action will be taken. They use James 5:13-16 to support this action.
Now depending on what the elders decide about the persons attitude several things can happen.
One, they can keep it private. This is called private reproof. This is handled between the elders and the individual and no one ever knows about it. Two,they can recieve what is called public reproof. This is when an announcement is made to the congregation that this person has been "involved in conduct unbecoming a Christian".(when I was a Witness this was the wording of the announcment that I heard used at the Kingdom Hall from the platform) Again no one in the congregation is necessarily aware of what the sin involved was.
If the elders deem the person as unrepentant, they are disfellowshipped and again, no one may ever know why.
This is the process. Perhaps this will help you understand the secrecy.
The reasoning used for the secrecy, is that any type of serious sin brings reproach upon the congregation and the name of Jehovah, so any who would have knowlege are specifically called in and instructed to talk to no one about what they know. I also know this to be fact, as I have been called in and instructed personally on some cases. I'm sorry, there is a scripture they use to support that, but I can't remember where it is. Once the matter is handled within the congregation, Witnesses believe it is improper to involve those outside the congregation.
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Mother's Letter To Start Off The New Year...
by silentlambs ini received this letter from my mother over the weekend, it came with a card and a special note to my children.
i plan to let them read it someday, not today..... silentlambs.
december 20,2001 .
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thinkers wife
Bill,
I for one am very glad you shared this very personal issue. It is something I have been grappling with for quite awhile now. I don't know that I will ever totally understand my parents mindset. But I do know that your mother's letter truly reflected what I have been dealing with with all of my family! Thank you!
Marilyn,
Interesting observation about extro and intro verts. I recommended not sending the letter exactly as written, but advised Bill to do what was best for he and his family. I am definitely an extrovert!! To the umph degree. But ironically am also a peacemaker. Sometimes things just have to be said. Other times we have to weigh the pros and cons and figure out whether we are just saying it for ourselves and what effect it will have in the long run. That for me is where the peacemaking comes in. If I think I really can get over something without being brutally honest, without it damaging my phsyche I will. Otherwise no matter how brutal, I will feel compelled to say it.
JT,
Thinker and I discussed this thread extensively on the way home from taking my step-daughter back home. We came up with almost verbatim what you said on page three. As always you seem to hit the nail on the head!!
Thank you everyone for all of your insights albeit with differing opinions!!
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How Long A JW ( Baptised )?
by hillary_step ini frequently read on this board that somebody has 'been a jw for over 25 years' and then learn that they are in fact 25 years and three days old.. i am very easily confused, in fact i actually got inside a car of similar color to my own recently and spent at least five minutes with a furrowed brow trying to force my car key into its ignition, fortunately, i realised my error before i was arrested.
so, just to humor me, can you all post how long you were/are baptised jw's?.
thank you -- hs.
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thinkers wife
Raised as one. Dad has been pioneering since the fifties. Mom is also pioneering. I pioneered regularly for over eight years and countless months of auxiliary pioneering.
Baptized at the ripe old age of thirteen December 16, 1973. Da'ed myself June of 2000. Didn't want to give them the chance of degrading more than they already had. After years of battling depression and other assundry afflictions, I am finally happily married to a man of the "world". He was never a Witness and knew nothing about them until he met me and did mega research. Has a kicken' collection very well organized of the JW's.
I left mostly for emotional reasons, Thinker showed me the logic.
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Mother's Letter To Start Off The New Year...
by silentlambs ini received this letter from my mother over the weekend, it came with a card and a special note to my children.
i plan to let them read it someday, not today..... silentlambs.
december 20,2001 .
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thinkers wife
Dear Bill,
Thank you so much for sharing the letters. In my opinion, your mother's letter epitomizes the convoluted reasoning, or lack there of, that indocrination by the Witnesses encourages.
Many differing responses were here. And the bottom line is we all have to decide to do what is best for us and our family.
I personally, though I agree with your letter in essence, would not send such a letter. My question would be, what would it accomplish? Other than possibly making ourselves feel better, it seems to me, that it could only give them ammunition and make matters worse.
You have always displayed reasonable and admirable qualities in the posts that I have read. I trust you will do the best thing for you and yours.
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Worried about my Dad in hospital :(
by Simon inwe visited angharad's parents at the weekend and got a call on sunday night from her sister who'd been called by my sister as they hadn't been able to contact us .... the message was not a happy one:.
my dad has had a heart attack and was in intensive care in hospital.. it was a while before i managed to speak to anyone over there with people probably out but i eventually spoke to his wife who says he's doing ok and has now been moved to the main ward but is being kept in as you would expect.
he may have to be moved to calgary for some investigation / tests.. he had heart surgery about 15 years ago and i think 4 of his 5 bypasses have failed so he has to take quite a bit of medicine for pain and stuff.
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thinkers wife
Simon,
I am so sorry I missed this yesterday. Glad to hear you are going to take the "high road". We can't control what others do i.e. your sisters, but we can certainly conduct ourselves with love and compassion.
I hope it works out well for your father. Certainly the more love that surrounds him the better for him.
Be safe!!
TW